How Nessim Btesh Automates 100% Of B2B Sales With eCommerce

Unknown Speaker : 0:07

All right. Welcome to the hard truth about b2b e commerce. We're on episode 12 with Nassim the Tash and I'm your host Isaiah Bollinger from from trellis. Unfortunately, our co host is not with us today Timothy, we're both had some vacation time. So we kind of decided to each do one separately so we'll be back to normal after this episode. Before we get into it, I just want to mention our sponsor punch out to go punch out to go has been a great sponsor for us and is a global b2b integration company specializing in connecting commerce business platforms, with E procurement and eirp applications. So, you know, essentially they're connecting e commerce platforms with clients ep caremount and eirp applications to automates the flow of purchasing data. So you can immediately reduce integration complexities, for punch out catalogs, electronic purchase orders, invoices, and other b2b sales order order automation documents. So thank you to punch out to go. And yeah, let's let's get into it. Um, there seem to seem detached is with us. He's a technology manager of nortex. I hope I'm saying that right. nortex. He has been in software development his entire career, and kind of fell into b2b commerce, which I think everyone in b2b commerce sort of falls into at some point in their career, although some people may have done it purposefully. But, like myself, he kind of fell into e commerce. In b2b e commerce so but seem you know or sorry, the scene it's confusing. You're combining your last name and your first name. So in a seam give us a little bit more on your background and how you kind of got into this ecommerce world.

Unknown Speaker : 2:14

Yeah, for sure. First of all, thank you for having me. I think it's amazing that you're doing a podcast on b2b because like, there's absolutely no information out there on. Yeah, I think that it would be really helpful when I started to be able to have like, somewhere to go and somewhere to like, hear about what everybody else is doing. So thank you for that.

Unknown Speaker : 2:34

Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome.

Unknown Speaker : 2:37

Yeah, so I guess my background is mostly software development. I draw my career I help startups mostly develop software products around more specifically around data analytics and across multiple industries. So I started in the restaurant industry and then went into And then went into like, other type of software, it's data analysis martech and stuff like that. Um, and it was actually funny, I got into b2b commerce because I, my, my h1 b didn't come out when I was living in Boston and I had to move back to Panama with my wife and I went to work with my, with my family business. And it just came about that I arrived in Panama and I saw that nobody was actually working on dg dice in the company. And for me, that was like a, you know, I wanted to keep working. And what I liked I was I had like 10 years working in sort of the software industry. And when I kept I want to keep doing that I didn't want to stop because I was really passionate about it. And that Yeah, and I guess I took it upon myself from taking the company online as I I went back and I started pulling, pulling all the strings to move the company towards what I In a selfish way doors what I wanted to go to her is what I, what I envisioned that the world the future was going to be, which was essentially b2b commerce.

Unknown Speaker : 4:10

Yeah. And I'm sure

Unknown Speaker : 4:14

yeah, that Thank you. I'm sure you didn't predict COVID-19 the Coronavirus so that probably changed things quite a bit for you guys and probably made you feel good about the decision because you probably helped them, you know, be in a better place during this time. Would you say? That's correct?

Unknown Speaker : 4:32

Yeah, for sure ID was

Unknown Speaker : 4:37

the, I guess the best worst thing that happened was was on the one side, you lost a lot of your sales because everything closed down and on the other side helped push forward. My vision so they helped push forward the the digitalization of the company from one day to the next you had like from 10% of the time going online to 100%. You know what I mean? Wow. So basically, showrooms are now worthless.

Unknown Speaker : 5:08

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker : 5:11

So quite a big shift for you guys. So tell me a little bit, since you have a very technical background. Um, tell me a little bit about. So we talked kind of about your background and how you got into b2b commerce. And I think we, you know, we talked earlier and originally you guys were looking, were using Shopify quickly realized that that wasn't a good decision, and then you decided to go with more of a custom solution. Can you talk a little bit about that and how, you know, for people that are new to this, they might do what you did, they might say, Oh, I need Shopify and then realize it's not.

Unknown Speaker : 5:47

Yeah, for sure.

Unknown Speaker : 5:52

Yeah, for sure. So we started first with Shopify. And we soon came into real estate Shopify wasn't going to work, just because Shopify was built to manage sort of like release more catalogs. And we had like a huge, like immense got that wasn't it wasn't scaling very well. And a lot of the functionality, you should be required for the for the business complexity in b2b. Shopify did not allow for that. And we went through several iterations where we wanted to try Shopify plus. And then the Shopify wholesale edition and like none of them actually work. So what we actually ended up doing and it was really funny, because we were in a meeting with the VP of Shopify and Tony, on how we modify his platform to work with our industry, which essentially would backfire. So what we did is we use like, some custom fields that showed me how Shopify has built in and you weren't supposed to use them for like all the advanced pricing Eventually backfire because the platform became really slow and like collapse the entire the entire team. So what we decided is I remember perfectly we, we met with a with the entire team one day we said we said like we need to find a new solution. And we we had a fair we had to go into for in two months. So we in basically we had two months to variable the entire platform on and we started looking into that say like WordPress and we looked into all their more advanced software that were in like 100,000 to 200,000 range and we saw the solutions and what we realized is that for businesses was so complex that none of these software's allow for allow for allow for a business run online. So we it now that I think about it, it was it wasn't a very smart decision, but it was probably the best decision that we had. At the moment, so we started developing everything from scratch. We do me myself actually, back then we didn't have many developers on. We only had one working on the European myself. And I took it upon myself to develop the entire sort of b2b platform from scratch, which included everything from advanced pricing, like every so everything that you expect in a b2b commerce, but like more personalized, more customized, gotcha permission management and everything.

Unknown Speaker : 8:36

Yeah, so you guys built out a lot of a lot of features. And you did this with react? Would you kind of say that you took that headless approach where you had kind of the independent front end, and then you were pulling in data from other sources? Is that kind of where you ended up?

Unknown Speaker : 8:53

Yes. So I think that so so

Unknown Speaker : 8:57

here's one thing that we realized early on So when we were in Shopify, we started collecting user data. So like, everything from like, what browser do they use, what? What size were they phones were everything. And we also, we build sort of like a custom JavaScript to measure the performance of the devices that the people were using. And we realize that the internet connection that they had were, like, in, I guess that in most places in the US, you realize that internet is stable. So your expectation is that the internet works, but in most places in Latin America, that's not the case. So we had this cream measuring sort of the internet connection, the stability of the network, and the performance of the devices that we're using. And we realized that we had to build something that was extremely fast that was extremely reliable and low in networks and that was extremely reliable on intermittent internet. So Because Because of that, we decided that the logical reason was to have something that was separated completely from the backend from like a regular CMS almost similar to how Shopify and WordPress work where, where everything renders in the server. So using Shopify, I mean, using react, we had to build something that both rendered in the user side and in the server data, it allowed for really good SEO and at the same time, allowed for extremely good speed on the like, really fast. How do you say so like really far? Like really, really fast response from the user side? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker : 10:48

Yeah. So you guys want so it's, it's kind of this term called headless is the the term people are using like headless commerce. So that means they're using a framework like react. I'm trying to explain it for The non technical people, and you can kind of pull in the data that you need via API's and, you know, potentially even graph qL and other other new technology. So it only loads the data that you need that you know, so you're not kind of constantly reloading the page every time. So I think it's definitely the future. It's definitely faster. It has a lot of flexibility and benefits. And it's great for b2b because of b2b, you might have eirp data, you might have your CMS data, you might have other systems. I mean, some of these b2b companies have lots of different systems. And you can bring that all into the headless front end. So I think that was a really a smart decision that you guys made there. I'm just kind of forging ahead with that. I'm sure always in hindsight, there are certain things you would have done differently, but it sounds like it helped you guys move forward in the right direction overall, and has gotten you to a much better place with b2b e commerce. So I think I think the lesson here That that, that what you're describing is that if you want to really become fully digital, which is you're saying 100% of sales online, correct? Is that what you're saying now, you need to have insane flex, like you need to kind of really personalize and create a lot of flexibility in the in the site. So that you can accommodate a wide range of use cases and customers. And I think it's really hard to find a platform that's going to do that for your for a b2b business, because they're all different. They have their own different ways of doing things. So I think you have to be like, even if you choose a platform, let's say Magento, or Shopify, you have to be expecting to customize it very heavily. And I think that's the mistake a lot of these companies make is they think, Oh, I can buy a Magento I can buy insight. And now I'm just gonna get my b2b e commerce up and running, but it's like, okay, but really, you're gonna need to customize it. You need engineers, whether it's paying someone like us trellis or hiring someone like unisee and like There's a big lift there. Regardless, I think of what technology? Would you agree with that?

Unknown Speaker : 13:08

I mean, yeah, for sure. I think that there are limitations if you buy something that's already like made some sort that's already built. So if you use Magento, or WordPress or anything like that, a, and I think that that's a big, that's a complexity in the b2b world that there's a lot of these business run really complex, like processes that are that are needed to build the software and the and the benefit of going headless, which is having the front end separate from the back end is that you can integrate with 100 different system. It's like for example, we have we have the CMS back end, but then we also have another sort of our three different applications integrating us which include like serverless code in AWS, and includes an older article We build throughout the way.

Unknown Speaker : 14:02

Yeah, so you guys are starting to slowly. And I think that's the future. It's like, you know, you have certain applications for specific purposes. Maybe CMS just does blog pages, you know, certain kinds of content, er p does orders, customers, you know, you might have a CRM that's separate from MBRP. You might have a Pim that just as product get like, all of a sudden, you could have the best back end for the specific purpose, and then bring that into the front end with headless and I think that's where b2b needs to head. It's just hard for I think, a lot of b2b companies to wrap their head around this when they're still just trying to get a basic website up and running. So yeah, yeah, for sure.

Unknown Speaker : 14:43

Um, so

Unknown Speaker : 14:47

while we're still on the topic, and we're kind of jumping around, you mentioned, you know, I think there's so much that we can get into in terms of what's different with b2b in from b2c. Could you talk a little bit about what you think some of the key differentiators are like you're talking about personalization, large catalogs like what do you like? You know, you're not just selling t shirts on Shopify. Can you explain like some of the key things that you think come up and b2b e commerce that aren't necessarily as relevant and b2c?

Unknown Speaker : 15:19

You know, that I think about I thought about is this a lot? And which is the hard question, or b2b, I think that most b2c commerce are billed for, let's say to manage three or four products at the time, or maybe you have some crazy users buying like 10 products at the time. But most b2b users are going to buy like a few if you have, you're going to take a large site they're going to buy they're going to have carts anywhere from 500 products to say like 1000 or 2000 products. When you know that i didn't i didn't think about this because I came I knew how to buy an Amazon I knew how to use an e commerce be a b2c e commerce, but I never thought about it using it in a world of b2b. And in a b2c, you go in and you see maybe 100 products and these platforms are optimized for product discovery. As opposed to in a b2b, you need to optimize for ease of navigation. Because the thing is that in a b2b world, you need to look into look, let's say 5000 products in a spread of like three or four hours, as opposed to like a, b to c, b to say you spend maybe 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, stop. If you really like the website, you buy something and then you take out. So I think it's like a completely different experience. And I think I came into the realization recently that the reason that we're struggling so much in b2b is that we're trying to adopt an e commerce world from a different place. Different buying experience. So like, like what I mentioned, like we're trying to take the world that is optimized for like, half an hour for buying and half an hour and put it in a world that needs to spend four or five hours in a website. And

Unknown Speaker : 17:16

so you're saying they might go and they're like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm building you know, this construction project I need, you know, these hundred materials or 200 materials or this really complex like buying process of all these. Yeah, they need good pricing they need to make get the right sizes, the right exact inventory. So they might have a card of 100 200 300 500 items. They might have order approval, like to send to their manager so that the manager can approve it. It's just like you said, it's, it's like a completely different and more complicated shopping experience than you. Yeah, your b2c Okay, I just got some beef jerky on Amazon.

Unknown Speaker : 18:01

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think

Unknown Speaker : 18:10

Be careful there because you need to optimize the Explorer for be different from the b2c.

Unknown Speaker : 18:19

Yeah. So so I like the idea of like, these larger catalogs, larger purchasing processes. Could you get into any of the specifics of what you guys have done around personalization and order a manner of, you know, order approval? Or, you know, do you have like corporate accounts or how you know, would be to see you have the simple basic account, you know, what I mean? And I think with b2b sometimes that gets a lot more complicated.

Unknown Speaker : 18:48

So, so I guess, I guess we, we had to like, add approval. So before the approval process was sort of in the checkout, were you checked out and then we are prove the order. So we had to move the approval process from the checkout to the account creation. So that let's say that once you get into a funnel sort of like or sales funnel, we approved you approve the account, and then everything goes the same way, would we in a b2c. But before that approval process was actually in the checkout. So we had to like change the way we were to optimizes for the web.

Unknown Speaker : 19:32

When you approve someone to be a buyer or on your website, do you give them special payment terms? like okay, this person gets that 30 or this person has to pay with credit card because maybe you don't trust them as much? Like do you guys do anything like that with how you handle their payment terms or?

Unknown Speaker : 19:52

No, I mean, we have available every payment method and they can pay any, any way they want, as long as they pay.

Unknown Speaker : 20:00

Gotcha. Okay, so you just have lots of options.

Unknown Speaker : 20:04

Yeah, exactly. Um,

Unknown Speaker : 20:06

what about pricing? Have you guys done anything to kind of like maybe your bigger customers get better pricing? Is there anything like that? Or have you tried to just kind of automate that all through the website.

Unknown Speaker : 20:18

So it's actually completely automated. So one of the things we build into the software is, once you log in, you get your, you get your price, your custom price. So I think throughout the way more most of our clients have a different price than the sounder price, which is usually lower like a discount. And then once you've logged into your account, you already have your price at all period.

Unknown Speaker : 20:47

So is it when it's automated? Do you mean that like, do they overtime if they buy more they get a better price? Or do you have to manually go in and say, Okay, we're going to give this person even a bigger discount. How do you how do you guys Like, like, what happens if someone's like a better price over time, you know?

Unknown Speaker : 21:07

Did this kind of paint on the card size? So the entire gotcha.

Unknown Speaker : 21:12

So you can create some logic and some rules based on what you think is best for the business based on card size and volume. And you're like, Okay, this size, we can give this discount. So it's fairly automated. Yeah. And I think that makes sense. I could see, yeah, I could see the future of b2b e commerce, like a lot of companies have this manual pricing, oh, this customers bought this, let's give them this price. They have like a lot of manual pricing and kind of like on a per customer basis. But I could see the future being more algorithm driven, where, you know, based on categories and cart size, and total annual volume that you purchased and maybe even location, if they're closer, it's easier to ship. Maybe you give them about a press, I could see kind of the future being more algorithm driven and sounds like you guys are starting to move in. direction.

Unknown Speaker : 22:01

Yeah, so everything is algorithm driven. And so when you're gonna realize that when once you log in into your platform, you have to share the location because we have everything built into the algorithm. So we know where you are, where you're like, what's your country, what's your CD and everything. So we build everything into it.

Unknown Speaker : 22:20

So the logistics play into the pricing, because if they're further away, it's harder to ship. Does that get factored into their pricing? Or is it more based on their shipping costs?

Unknown Speaker : 22:32

I'm not gonna I'm gonna say that not yet. But one like soon, soon enough, so it's okay. It's coming. It's

Unknown Speaker : 22:40

Yeah. Wow, you guys are Yeah, this is really cool. So you guys are really really put driving towards automation. And I'm just curious, how was that with the family you know, your family business? That's always tough because you know, it's a family. When when you started automating this stuff that was there problems within the family or people still wanted to do things the old school way they wanted to in person relationships like how did you overcome that? Or how do the salespeople stay involved and not feel like they're kind of left out in the company?

Unknown Speaker : 23:17

So that's a

Unknown Speaker : 23:17

very hard question to answer. I think it I think Yeah, you touched every point there so it's like I guess at first we had a lot of resistance so that's why that's why I mentioned at the start that I had to sort of like pull the strings from the bag without people realizing to shift the company in this direction on a lot of what I thought the world so so where I came from a software background from a startup background and most of what you're gonna startup it's like, these amazing, software's are really automated and then don't don't depend much on people. And I have to like, slowly pull the strings of like, let's say my sisters, my, my grandfather's and my, you know what I mean the entire family to be able to shoot the company in that direction.

Unknown Speaker : 24:12

It was a struggle at first because

Unknown Speaker : 24:16

I guess when once you're used to way of thinking it's very hard to change the way of thinking on Yeah. Changing someone's perspective is hard.

Unknown Speaker : 24:28

So was there a turning point where like, they saw that it was working, and they saw that this is doing better than they were like, oh, wow, this is like great. Like, was there a turning point where they started to believe more and trust you more with us?

Unknown Speaker : 24:45

Sorry, I think we're, we're lagging a little bit. Did you hear what I said?

Unknown Speaker : 24:51

Oh, yeah, yes. Can you hear me Sorry? Yeah, yeah, I think I can hear you now. So I we're getting my connections. Not as good as it normally Yeah. So sorry can continue

Unknown Speaker : 25:04

Sure. So I think throughout the way they started to real highs it worked maybe like on December on the salad the

Unknown Speaker : 25:17

to see

Unknown Speaker : 25:20

unit but I guess until Coronavirus came they weren't they were not hundred percent convinced I guess until like let's say they had to close on the showroom and they had to move everything online

Unknown Speaker : 25:34

so once their loved ones like

Unknown Speaker : 25:39

sorry continue

Unknown Speaker : 25:41

yeah sorry I think that there's a lag there so yeah Coronavirus, made everything like on like forced us to go online essentially.

Unknown Speaker : 25:52

Cool. So you were kind of ahead of the curve and then all of a sudden Coronavirus sets and the family's like Oh great. We got to do this What else are we gonna do And now? Now it looks like you know, the right move, and you probably probably have an easier time convincing them, I'm guessing. Yeah, for sure. But I could see how difficult that was before Coronavirus. So we kind of touched on these topics a little bit. What do you think is the difference between success and failure? Um, you know, in some ways you guys had some failures, but you persevered and continued and then succeeded with the the more custom route. And you've had some internal battles with culture and things like that. But let's say you're talking to another family owned b2b company and they're struggling, they don't know or they're, they don't even know where to go. What What would you recommend to help them maybe avoid some failures? I think failures are inevitable when you're starting out, but

Unknown Speaker : 27:05

Sure, I think that my recommendation would be to take something from the startup world. And who's your client? What phone do they own? What computer do the on housing internet connection? How are they used to bind on the line. So it's actually something very funny. If you go onto a website, you'd see that the clothes icon for or or pop ups or models are actually quite big, bigger than usual. And the reason for that is that we realize looking at the recordings of the website, that most of our users didn't know that if you click outside of pop up, you will it will remove the pop up from your screen, and they do realize how that you can click on title pop up to close and so we had to actually made the closing icons really big so that they were able to see them. Gotcha. Do you see them more easily? So So that I think that that's the secret on understanding who your customer is, is your customer very like? Does your customer is the customer, the person that requires a nap in the phone? Or is it bird

Unknown Speaker : 28:18

that knows how to use any farmer? Is he used to buying an Amazon or a raise? There is you are used to going there sort of like their pain points, I guess. And that's my best recommendation. You You have success, you will have success. If you understand who your client is, who your user is,

Unknown Speaker : 28:42

and how they buy. Yeah. So basically what you're saying is you want to tailor it around what the buying expectations are of the customer. And if they're familiar with a certain type of experience, maybe trying to do something closer to that experience so that it's less of a learning for them.

Unknown Speaker : 29:03

Yeah. And then and the other thing is that don't take it don't don't take this from b2c, which is b2c sort of experience in the website is more like all open to interpret they suppose to like in b2b, you have to guide the user through a certain path. You want to throw, like a certain, a certain path in your website to God to guide the sale as to like leaving it open up for the user.

Unknown Speaker : 29:37

Gotcha. So you think it Yeah, makes sense. So when you're a consumer, you're like, Oh, I'm exploring, I'm learning. Maybe I want this. Maybe I don't, you're kind of shopping, right? Whereas with b2b, you're trying to guide them, they might, okay, I want these materials. You're trying to guide them through that process and make it easier for them to buy it and get what they need. Yeah. Cool. Sorry. I think we're, my internet connection is not the greatest right now. So I apologize. I think

Unknown Speaker : 30:12

we have some lag data.

Unknown Speaker : 30:14

Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker : 30:18

So, so yeah, sorry about the internet right now. Um, so what do you see as kind of the future of b2b e commerce? I think we've kind of alluded to it a little bit. But, you know, what, what would you say your kind of your vision is, for the next, you know, five years, you know, as you hopefully grow this and automate more of this and turn this into, you know, something that can be, I think, really, really amazing in South America. That doesn't, there's not a whole lot. there's not as much of an Amazon presence in South America, right. So I think there's a little bit more of a opportunity there for you guys.

Unknown Speaker : 31:05

Oh, that's a that's a hard question. So, on one side, there's a there's a tread, you know, there's a tread from direct to consumer brands that are usually cheaper because they remove sort of the the operational costs of b2b. And they give that benefit to the consumer. So on one side, but on on the other side, I would say that there's a huge space, especially in Latin America to offer sort of like a b2b that's completely digitized that they experience is completely digitized. And the reason for that is that you see that most of the companies are still working the way they used to 20 years ago or 10 years ago, where they have a pen and paper and they write everything down and then they send it to to the customer and they said like what they want or they have like a printer Gotta love that they have to ship with DHL to be able to select products. And I'm seeing that again and again in a lot of companies and I say I'm in the largest company.

Unknown Speaker : 32:13

So

Unknown Speaker : 32:15

the ones that are supposed to be the more advanced, you see them that they have a website, but they have a very basic website and they don't have any know how into how how to build like a really good experience around b2b e commerce. And so I see a lot of opportunity. Taking big dice in the dire sort of selling experience and that's that's one thing in especially in Latin America, but I no recommendation would be to anyone's headless for b2b commerce. It's actually very beneficial. beneficial because like you said, you're able to bring all your stuff together into one UI, one seamless UI, and it's completely, the user doesn't realize that he's using 10 different platforms. And he's thinking that he's in the same website, you know what I mean? Yeah, you don't have to shift them throughout different. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker : 33:18

Yeah. So would you say, you know, to sum that up, the future is kind of as digitized, more automated experience where you have this kind of unified front end, but then you have all these different systems in the back end, kind of optimizing different processes and automating different processes. And as we move that will get more and more advanced, maybe more pricing logic, more shipping logic, more, just more advanced logic to personalize around the use cases.

Unknown Speaker : 33:51

Yeah. So yeah, it I loved your episode. I think it was the last episode where you said that there was a drone that was going To the pipes and looking for the parts, I need a replacement. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker : 34:06

Yeah, yeah. And I think that Yeah, yeah. Sorry, continue. Go ahead.

Unknown Speaker : 34:13

And I think that's a way to go. So I automate a lot of those things that I used to do very manually and digitize them.

Unknown Speaker : 34:22

Yeah. So even people out in the field, you know, they can just call in a part and get it delivered in real time. There's a break in something and they're out in the field or they're, because b2b, you know, you're dealing with people that are contractors, all sorts of different types of people and they might be out working and then they need a replacement part or they may need something on demand in real time. And I think that real time delivery experience is going to is going to come to b2b e commerce. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker : 34:55

Cool.

Unknown Speaker : 34:58

So any any last remarks And I think it I apologize for the bad internet Today I'm at not at my normal location, but, um, any kind of closing remarks or advice you'd have for anyone before we kind of

Unknown Speaker : 35:11

wrap this up or?

Unknown Speaker : 35:19

Yeah, sure. So So my advice would be to anyone that wants to start in the b2b commerce is think about, take something from the startup world, take something from the tech world. Think about the user understanding who they are, like I mentioned before that I think that's the key to success. Yep,

Unknown Speaker : 35:38

no, really, I guess my about my advice.

Unknown Speaker : 35:41

Cool. So really understand your user, your buyer, how they buy, how you can digitize that and make it easier for them to buy online. And maybe even like, you know, do some use cases or talk to them or walk them through a prototype or something like that. I could see how that could be very valuable before you do the full interview. vestment in the full fledged product. Well, thank you so much to see him, I think we're gonna have to have you back. I want to see what you guys are up to in like a year from now I can imagine you guys are gonna have even more automation, more advanced rules and innovation that I think I think you guys have a lot to be proud of, especially in a place like South America where like you said most things are still very, you know, pen and paper and you guys I think are one of the more advanced b2b e commerce companies that I've talked to including all the US companies that we deal with. So really great information. Once again, I apologize for the laggy internet. Hopefully everyone can still understand the the messaging and the value that we provided. And I hope everyone can come back for Episode 13 with Mark Sutherland, who's been in the b2b space for quite some time. So thank you so much the same

Unknown Speaker : 37:00

But thank you, thank you for the opportunity to share my experience and share my knowledge. You're doing what you're doing here. It's amazing. There's a huge I think there's a lot of a lot to cover actually. I know I'm excited to join you again next year.

Unknown Speaker : 37:16

Yeah, I think I'm excited to see what you're up to. So we'll make it happen. And I'm sure you're gonna allow us with some some even more advanced innovation in a year. So for now. Thank you.